To Freedspirit

This is an exchange I had some years back, but still pertinent today:

This post is in response to someone who calls their self “Freedspirit”.  Note that this is not about Freedspirit along, but all the other people who think that they can enter the market place of ideas, and express their opinions without a debate upon there merit.  When you go into the market and get up on your soapbox, as I am doing here, you cannot expect everyone to accept what you have to say, and you should not be surprised if someone puts up a soapbox right next to you to explain what they think is the error of your ways.

The post that has now been removed concerned hell, and her belief that it did not exist, which is fine with me for I agreed and used "For this is GOOD [not evil] and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who WILL have ALL MEN TO BE SAVED, and to come to the knowledge [both the good knowledge and the evil knowledge] of THE TRUTH" (I Tim. 2:3-4), as part of the justification for my belief.  For if God will have it, who can deny it?

She pointed out that she did not believe in Jesus, who is still alright with me; I believe that Jesus will get around to everyone in His own sweet time.  But then she (I am assuming that Freedspirit is a she) she answered another’s question about the why the Bible said so much about hell with the comment that the Bible was put together by Constantine the Great in 325 A.D., and not to believe the Bible because it was just put together by a man making authority for himself to tell other what to do (I do not remember the exact wording of this).  Well this is just not factual, so I had to respond with the following:

Constantine the Great put an end to the persecution went on to make other laws in favor of the Christians, but he did not himself become a Christian until his victory over Licinius. He did preside over the first ecumenical council of the church at Nicaea in 325.  This came about because the bishop of Alexandria, whose name was Alexander, excommunicated Arius for his impiety.  Constantine advising Alexander and Arius not to dispute about trifles, however, he decided that the question of whether our Lord and Savior were God or a creature was so far from being a trifle, and that it was one of the most serious of all questions.  This council is when it was determent that Sunday (a pagan holey day named after the sun and was observed because of the sun worshipers, but only a few  observed the Sabbath while man were already observing Sunday) wound be the day Christians would set aside as their rest and holy day.  No biblical authority was giving for this decision, it was just declared.

The bishop of Alexander could call together the bishops of all Egypt, and the bishop of Antioch could call together all the bishops of Syria and some neighboring countries. But there was no bishop who could call a council of the whole Church, because there was no one who had any power over more than a part of it. But now, Constantine, as he had become a Christian, thought that he might gather a council from all quarters of his empire, and this was the first of what are called the general councils.  Historically speaking pope Pius I (142-155) was the first single bishop presiding over the diocese of Rome, but he had no supreme authority as the Pope does today.

It met in the year 325 A.D., at Nicaea (or Nice), in Bithynia, and 318 bishops attended it. The emperor attended the council during the latter part of its sittings; it was the Nicene Creed, "Very God of Very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father."  That was the results of this council, not the selection of the works that would be included in the Bible.  By the way the word "creed" means I believe.

The Bible came to us by way of the Jews for the Old Testament, the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls proved that there had been little change in these scriptures in over 2000 years.  The New Testament was written in Greek. The Pauline Epistles, the Gospel of Mark, the Gospel of Luke, and the book of Acts are all dated from 45-63 A.D. The Gospel of John and the Revelation may have been written as late as 95 A.D.

There are over 5,600 early Greek Manuscripts of the New Testament that are still in existence. The oldest manuscripts were written on papyrus and the later manuscripts were written on leather called parchment.  In 125 A.D. the New Testament manuscript, which dates most closely to the original autograph, was copied around 125 A.D., within 35 years of the original. It is designated "p 52" and contains a small portion of John 18. (The "p" stands for papyrus.)  Now to claim that the Bible did not exist until 325 A.D. is just not true, it was the Nicene Creed that did not exist until then.

It was at this that Freedspirit deleted all comments to her post, and I left a comment saying, “I believe that everyone is entitled to their opinions, but that no one is entitled to their own facts.”  With this she responded the following:

freedspirit wrote today at 2:02 PM:

With all due respect: It wasn't meant to be a debate or an argument. "Facts" are often twisted by spin doctors and those facts that I stated, I learned in Art History in College. Those are the "facts" as I was taught by an accredited college. It was a political move - that took women out of the picture very conveniently might I add. And no matter anyway....the Bible was put together by Infallible (sic)  men. And that is a fact that can't be disputed in my book. My truth comes from within. I don't believe in "Hell" as a place and I don't believe War is the way to Peace either. I am your worst nightmare CC...I am a bleeding heart liberal. So let's just agree to disagree and leave it at that.

"There is a field where there are no rights or wrongs - will you meet me there?"

~ Rumi

I commented back that she did not wish a discussion, but wanted to preach, and with this she has shut her site to any comment and no longer has her opinion posted, and wrote me back:

freedspirit wrote today at 2:14 PM:

Whatever.....

How it was not my wish to shut her up and make her go away, I just wanted her to justify the things she was saying, and pointing out some things that history tell a different tell then the what she learned in her “accredited college”.  I would like to know what collage that was, and what course taught that, but alas she has withdrawn for the field.

As for her quote from the Persian Jalal ad-Din Muhammad Balkhi-Rumi the Mawlawīyah, this is the guy who founded the Sufi Order, also known as the order of the Whirling Dervishes, and all of those folks want to either convert us or kill us, no compromise.

"There is a field where there are no rights or wrongs - will you meet me there?" I will meet anyone there as soon as force is no longer use by some men to make other men bow to their will.  She picks only the word that pleases her.  Some people want to use a bunch of goby gook that they spew out in a seemingly coherent stream to convert as many as they can into their way of thinking.  They quickly withdraw when faced with the truth of their assertion, and do not try to defend the words they are trying to sell as true,

Just remember this, if you post I may respond.  I will only remove obscene comments from my post, not the ones who disagree with my opinion.  As far as "the Bible was put together by Infallible men" if the Bible is of God then the men who wrote it did it under His inspiration, If the Bible be of men then there is no God in it.  That is the dilemma, and the choices of worldviews.  So who’s Son is Jesus?